Big names in corruption must be given exemplary punishment

Planning minister MA Mannan

MA Mannan, planning minister and member of parliament from Sunamganj-3, had previously been state minister for finance and planning. In an interview with Prothom Alo he speaks in detail on the government's development plans, problems in implementation, tackling the coronavirus situation and more.

Q:

How far has the government succeeded, or failed, in tackling coronavirus?

We definitely have success in tackling coronavirus. Compared to the West, we have less coronavirus patients here. Deaths are fewer too. We are doing comparatively better than the US, France and England, or even than the neighbouring countries.

When the coronavirus first broke out, our prime minister took certain bold measures. She shut down the industries, but kept the transport system in moving to keep the market in motion. She ensured a steady supply of seeds, fertiliser and loans so that the agriculture was not harmed. The agricultural workers had freedom of movement. These decisions had a significant impact. Then stimulus packages of over Tk 100 trillion (Tk 1 lakh crore) were declared. That has been a big boost to an economy like ours. These stimulus packages reassured everyone that the government was with them.

The social safety net programmes for the poor were reinforced. Another decision was to provide Tk 2,500 in cash per person to 5 million families or 20 million people through mobile banking. Maybe 10 per cent of this wasn't delivered as it should have been, but at least the rest was delivered. This had a significant contribution to revive the economy.

Q:

So much is being said about importing the coronavirus vaccine. Will the people ultimately receive it?

There had been a general question as to whether we would actually get the vaccine. It is unfortunate that whenever we do anything with the neighbouring country, people become apprehensive. That is not correct. Of course, there may be reasons for apprehension, I admit. Certain statements on their part have created confusion. They said that they will not be able to provide the vaccine at present. We had initially heard they will not be able to give it at all. But we must remember there is an agreement between the two countries and this is legally bound. It is now clear that the vaccine is coming. The vaccine will be distributed in keeping with the World Health Organisation (WHO) guidelines.

Q:

There has been an increase in corruption and irregularities in government procurement in recent times. How can this be addressed?

Look at the budget. Our development budget this time was Tk 2.02 trillion (Tk 2 lakh 2 thousand crore). In 1973 this had been just Tk 5 billion (Tk 500 crore). It has gone up by almost 46 times and so the pressure has gone up too. These irregularities are happening in different ways. Many people are running off here and there, going off overseas to Begumpara. That cannot be denied. My forefathers never saw so much money. I feel there is inadequate application of the law. In China they shoot people dead for corruption. We cannot do that here. Our country is of one big family, all Bengalis. We all think alike so we cannot do that. But we must admit that there is a wave of corruption. I feel that in order to deal with this, the big names in corruption must be given exemplary punishment. Then the others will beware.

Q:

After taking over as planning minister following the 2018 election, you delivered a stern message to the project directors. But they remain out of control.

It is not possible to control the project directors because they do not work under us. They have their ministers, their secretaries. Government officials do not want to go to their workplaces outside of Dhaka, Sylhet and Chattogram. Other than the DC, SP and a handful of others, no one is found at their work stations. They don't stay at their workplaces. A person may be posted to Sunamganj, but he stays in Sylhet. And the official posted in Sylhet, stays in Dhaka.

Q:

What do you think can be an effective way to bring an end to the irregularities and corruption in the government procurement?

Proper application of the law is essential. There is no need for thousands of laws. Our laws need to be reformed. There are many laws lingering on from the British rule. These are of no use, but cunning bureaucrats can use these in their own interests. That is why all this needs to be cleaned up.

Q:

Do you find a change in the mindset of the officials in the administration nowadays? You were in the administration yourself previously, before coming into politics.

I was in the administration before. Very smart bright young people are joining government service nowadays, but I notice that the moment they enter the service, they start planning on how to go to America, how to go to Australia to do their PhD, or whether they can get a foreign posting. They will live in comfort there for six or seven years and then return. We didn't have such high ambitions when we began service.

Secondly, even within the country, they are getting all sorts of facilities, a beautiful office, a beautiful house and even a car. We didn't get such facilities when we joined our government jobs and we simply accepted it. Even the families of the officers get the use of cars now. We do not have the work ethics of the Japanese, the Germans and the English.

Q:

Do you find that the government officials have a lack of confidence in the political leadership?

Our generation, who had passed out of school and college during the sixties and seventies, had a strong sense of nationalism. That is absent among the officers today. You journalists can look into the reason behind this. They did not see those days in Bangladesh when we were ignored. They just see Bangladesh as a brilliant country. Yet there was a time when Bangladesh didn't even have a small airplane. Now we have ensured there are so many aircraft in the airport.

Q:

The government's development activities are Dhaka-centric. All development is Dhaka-oriented. Are there any plans to break away from this?

We have empowered our local government. The constitution upholds this. The villages and districts are being developed. Power is being taken all over. There are roads, schools, bridges, healthcare. What is required now is employment opportunity. Those who have left agriculture are coming to the cities or going abroad. I do not think people are coming to Dhaka now as they did before. That tendency has lessened.

Q:

During your time there were several annual and five-year plans. Why is the implementation so slow?

We have approved the eighth five-year plan. The five-year plan includes plans of overcoming the impact of COVID. We will increase investment in the health sector. We will increase investment in the rural economy. We will mechanise agriculture and investment more. We will provide more subsidies. There will be significant advancement in this sector.

Q:

Rice had to be imported this time. Why did this shortfall come about? Only recently the agricultural minister had been talking about exporting rice.

This is due to the weakness of our market management. This happens at times. Sometimes it is about onions, sometimes about potatoes. There is an invisible force controlling procurement and distribution. Market management must be more organised and integrated.

Q:

A river commission was formed to save the rivers from illegal occupation and pollution. Will the government implement the recommendations of the commission?

The recommendations should be implemented. The basic responsibility of the government is to scrutinise the recommendations and consult the experts. When it is ascertained that the recommendations are beneficial for the country, then these certainly should be recommended.

Q:

How can the gap be closed between the government planning and implementation?

This gap has emerged due to a few reasons. First of all is our lack of resources. Bangladesh is a least developed country. Secondly, we cannot deny the weakness in our management. There had long been a colonial rule here and the negative impact that had on our character, our thinking, lingers on. We are unable to overcome our management weaknesses. Thirdly, we had been a hungry, poor nation. We are now earning better and have developed. Our financial transactions have increased. But so has our greed.

Another factor is that our climate and culture are not quite compatible to development. I heard that the Japanese even die at their desks while working, they are so committed to their work. Work ethic doesn't feature so prominently in our culture. There is hardly any other country with so many festivals throughout the year. I was in government service. I would see people taking one day's leave and going home, not returning before three days or more. The government may give a three or four-day holiday, but they drag it on for a week. This doesn't go with development. It makes work lax. We need to pick up the pace of our work and coordinate it with technology.

Q:

State-owned industries are steadily facing losses, while the private sector flourishes. How is the private sector succeeding?

I would say this is yet another amazing wonder of Bangladesh. After independence, many resources came to our hands and this has been useful for the country. Around 1976 or 1977, huge strides were made in our readymade garment sector. This was spurred off by Nurul Quader Khan's Desh Garments. No one could imagine how fast this sector would flourish.

Q:

As planning minister, can you tell us when Padma Bridge will start functioning?

I had hoped it would be on Victory Day this year, but the minister in charge had said in June next year. Since we have waited so long, let's wait just a little bit more. It is within reach now.

Q:

You had been state minister for planning and for finance at the same time before. These two ministries are closely inter-related. Has a distance developed now?

We plan in the light of the five-year plan where it is decided how much funds will be spent on the various sectors. This is fixed in consultation with the finance ministry. We have a mid-term budget framework of MTBF. So everyone knows how much funds are allocated to each ministry. Then again, sometimes bureaucratic complications crop up. This is inevitable in Bangladesh.

*This interview appeared in the print and online edition of Prothom Alo and has been rewritten for the English edition by Ayesha Kabir