People cannot keep confidence in the state and the law

A new year has come around. We have been through a pandemic. Now we are having to face the impact of the Russia-Ukraine war. How do you see the coming days for Bangladesh?

We have faced the corona pandemic pretty well. We did have a lot of weaknesses, mismanagement and flaws, but the situation didn't deteriorate as expected, not anywhere near as bad as even the neighbouring country. But Bangladesh must be prepared for more pandemics in the future. We must use our experience to restructure our health system. We have also had to suffer because of the global economic situation caused by the Russia-Ukraine war. We are still suffering. Our economic sector has been hit hard in many ways too. This is a challenge in our way ahead. But Bangladesh is advancing despite all odds and this gives hope.

The national election is scheduled to be held at the beginning of next year and so many predict that politics this year is likely to see a lot of heat and agitation. What do you think?

Whenever there is an election in our country, the political situation always becomes more or less heated. This is nothing new. But this time we see direct threats -- 'your arms will be broken,' 'your legs will be broken' -- all sorts of direct threats and counter threats, no one is relenting. In such a situation, it is natural to be apprehensive. The political quarters should be restrained in their language or else clashes and conflict will ensue. I can only hope that such a situation does not emerge.

How can this intolerance and inflexibility in politics be resolved? Can we not dream of a democratic Bangladesh through fair and participatory elections?

This dream keeps us going. I always dream of a free, fair and neutral election, but then, that is just a dream. The thing is, will that ever materialise? One of the main preconditions of democracy is to listen to others, to offer constructive criticism to others and to have the capacity and patience to accept such criticism. We do not see such practice in our politics. I feel this is essential in order to bring about political understanding.

Bangladesh's Proclamation of Independence carried the pledge of equality, social dignity and justice. The constitution accordingly declared four fundamental pillars. How far away are we from that now?

We are far, far away from that. Had equality, social dignity and justice been established in society, we would not see child labour. Women still have to fear for their security. Poverty has not been eliminated from society. People are oppressed in all sorts of ways. We do not see the state and the government playing the role required to establish the fundamental pillars of the constitution. As a result, the elements of humanity are diminishing in society. For instance, when we were students, three or four of us never rode a rickshaw together. That is very common now. We do not bother about how difficult it is for the rickshaw-puller. The rickshaw-puller simply accepts this extra burden in hope for a few extra taka.

There is also a lacking in establishing the rule of law. There are many areas where laws could be enacted and applied to change society to an extent. Then again, in certain cases this is not possible even with laws in pace. Actually, people have to change themselves.

We have gained independence through the liberation war. But how far have we been able to retain the spirit of the liberation war in running our state and our politics?

By the spirit of the liberation war, I understand equality of the people, social dignity and justice, as I had mentioned before. Many people use the term 'spirit of the liberation war' in many ways. But where equality, social dignity and justice is absent, nothing remains of the spirit of the liberation war.

Over the last few years, other than communal attacks, there has been controversy over clothes, there has been social intolerance, and related incidents. Do you see a social transformation taking place?

That is happening for certain. After all, communal attacks shouldn't be happening in Bangladesh. My question is, when people have been living together for so long in the same village, same area, same locality, same neighbourhood, they have been mixing with each other, why do communal attacks take place? I feel there is some sort of instigation. There is definitely politics and greed or else such incidents are totally unexpected. After the incidents, within a few days things are back to normal, everything carries on as before. I think if we remain socially alert, such incidents can certainly be prevented.

As for clothes, this too is basically targeting girls. You have to dress this way, you can't dress that way -- this is a strategy to control women. Not too long ago a women was harassed at a railway station because of the way she was dressed. And the aggressor was a woman herself. Why did that happen? The perpetrator felt she could easily carry out the attack in front of everything. The fact that people are taking the law into their own hands or are able to take the law into their own hands, reflects intolerance. They think only they are right. When people lose confidence ­in the law in the state and even in themselves, they then take the law into their own hands and lean towards an outward manifestation of religion.

There is much talk about women's empowerment. The government too holds up all sorts of statistics to show how women are empowered. For over three decades, the prime minister and the leader of the opposition have been women. But in reality, are women in Bangladesh being empowered?

It must be admitted that women have advanced a long way compared to before. It is not just about being educated, but in the workplace and other areas too. We see girls from remote villages now forming the national football team, the cricket team. Women are coming forward, overcoming poverty, malnutrition and social obstacles. In the past only teaching or bank jobs were seen appropriate for women. They were seen in some government jobs too. But now women are army officers, pilots, police officers and more. They are joining the UN peacekeeping force. It feels good to see all this. But despite this professional advancement, women's empowerment hasn't really taken place as it should, despite women being at the very top in politics and running the country.

Women must come forward in education. Girls are still victims of child marriage. There is huge disparity between men and women in the family law. Religion is still being used as an excuse to obstruct women in many ways. Even today, people look forward to a son more than a daughter. Obscene remarks are made about women in religious gatherings. Unless at a social level mindsets are broadened and developed, unless the state plays a role, unless the rule of law is fully established, it will not be easy to ensure women's empowerment.

You are presently the vice chancellor of a university. You have taught at many universities at home and abroad. What problems do you see as an impediment to our higher education?

There is a gaping error in our higher studies in this country. Students and guardians feel that once school and college is over, university is the next inevitable step. But abroad I have seen that only those who plan to be teachers, researchers, physicians, engineers or such, go for higher education. Higher education is not for all there. Basic education is given more importance there. That is not so in our country. Here the base in school or college is not strong. And so when a student enters university, they cannot absorb the vast scope of studies at that level.

Another reason why we lag so far behind in the standard of higher studies here is political polarisation. Political consideration is given priority over merit in recruiting teachers. Such an incompetent and under qualified teacher takes classes till the day he retires. What can the students learn from him? Unfortunately this is exactly what is happening in our country.

In the past we had erudite, knowledgeable and efficient persons as vice chancellors. They have dwindled in number. There are over a hundred private universities in the country. Persons with the required qualifications to be vice chancellor and treasurer are not be created here so where will so many universities get vice chancellors and treasurers? This matters must be given due thought.

Bangladesh had made several achievements in the 51 years since independence. Which successes do you find significant? In which other areas do you hope Bangladesh attains success?

As a woman, I feel it is a great achievement that women have come so far ahead in the workplace. But there is still much to be done to ensure women's security. It is painful to see homeless women and children suffering in the winter. Everyone wants a Bangladesh free of discrimination, where children can study, play outdoors, and do not have to take up labour.

The country lags behind also because of corruption. We must be freed of corruption. The capital Dhaka is becoming unlivable. That must be given due attention. Road accidents have become the norm. People are dying regularly on the roads. I feel this calls for a political decision.

The younger generation is turning away from politics, but the future of the country depends on them. How hopeful are you about this young generation?

What has happened here is that many guardians encourage their children towards corruption. They are getting them their exam question papers in advance, helping them cheat. As a result, students are losing any sense of ethics. They no longer have any interest in in people's rights or the betterment of society. Then again, we see young people, students, armed with sticks and weapons in processions. It is not that the young ones are not getting interested in politics, but their motive is different. Political leaders are using them. There was a time when meritorious students were involved in politics. That is not so now. There is no ideology in today's politics, nothing to inspire the youth. But outside of politics, youth are doing good in many areas. They are taking the country forward.