BNP wants an inclusive parliament in the coming days with a powerful opposition party and lively debates in a vibrant House. BNP’s standing committee member Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury spoke with Prothom Alo about his party’s stance on the next general election, reforms, allegations of usurpation and extortion against BNP men, meeting of Jamaat Ameer with BNP Chairperson Khaleda Zia in London and other issues. Selim Zahid and Fakhrul Islam took the interview on Thursday
You are a former commerce minister. At the same time, you are one of the heads of BNP's international relations committee. If BNP comes to power, which responsibility will be on your list of preferences - the commerce ministry or the foreign ministry?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: That is the decision of my party leadership. If the party wants to give me any responsibility, I am willing to fulfill it. When we do politics, we have to know and understand more or less everything. You have to be ready to discharge any responsibility you are given.
How will BNP behave with the opposition party if it comes to power? Will it continue to jail people under any pretext, obstruct meetings and rallies?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: BNP has laid out its political guidelines in the 31-point recommendation for state reforms. Be it politicians or anyone else, those who do not understand and accept the changes that have emerged in the psyche of the people of Bangladesh after Sheikh Hasina's exit, have no future. That is number one. Number two is, if you want to bury the past, you have to bring about a seismic change in the political culture of Bangladesh. Other political parties may be your opponents, but you have to be tolerant towards them. You will have differences of opinion with them, and even if you have differences of opinion, you have to respect their opinion first. And you have to uphold their right to dissent.
Is the current interim government working to uphold dissent?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: I cannot say this, that is for the government and journalists to say. However, BNP is making efforts to uphold such a political culture. Tarique Rahman has made statements to this end.
BNP has endured a lot of torture for so long, that’s why talk of political revenge has come to the fore.
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: No, we will not do politics of revenge; we will not do the politics of vengeance. If we do so, then Bangladesh will return to its previous place. Then there was no need to oust Sheikh Hasina. I am clearly stating that if the politics of vengeance continues, it will not be possible for Bangladesh to move forward not just in politics, but also in the economic and social aspects.
BNP has been talking about changing the political culture. But many people say that the BNP is attaching more importance to the elections. Why?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: BNP was first to bring about reforms. BNP was born through reforms. From one-party rule to multi-party democracy, from state-run economy to free market economy, separation of the judiciary, all such good political reforms were brought about by the BNP. Almost all economic reforms were carried out by the BNP. BNP laid the foundation for where Bangladesh stands economically today.
Then why is there talk about reforms in the current context?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: It is the work of those who want to bring democracy and reforms in a face-off situation. Begum Khaleda Zia gave 'Vision-2030' eight years ago. We proposed reforms two years ago, keeping in mind what will happen after Sheikh Hasina's escape. We first proposed 27-point reforms, later made it 31 points with the opinions of the partners of simultaneous movement. Now we are going from district to district every day with those 31 points. I have not seen in the field those who are championing reforms today, nor have I heard about reforms from their mouths. So if anyone wants to use this as a political weapon, they will get humiliated as BNP is a party of reforms.
If this is the position of BNP, then why is BNP in conflict with Jamaat or National Citizens Committee (NCP) over reforms?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: When you have nothing in your hands, then you have to invent something. BNP has proposed the solution to the issues you are trying to invent now. Those who do not understand this are living in a fool's paradise.
Jamaat-e-Islami’s two leaders including its Ameer have recently met with BNP Chairperson Khaleda Zia and acting Chairperson Tarique Rahman in London. What have they discussed?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: Nothing was discussed there. They wanted to visit and it was a courtesy call. That is to my understanding. We must not lose this culture of courtesy calls.
The meeting has spawned much curiosity in political circles. Because, BNP is adamant about holding national elections in December while Jamaat has been demanding reforms first, then elections. But after returning from London, the Jamaat Ameer said elections can be held before the next Ramadan after carrying out reforms. Many say that this change came after meeting Khaleda Zia.
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: I cannot speculate on what discussions were held. I have said that there is no problem with discussions and what is the problem if the results of the discussions are visible? There is nothing bad if something is resolved through discussions. That is why discussions are needed. A major pillar of democracy is dialogue and this cannot be just verbal.
Do you expect elections in December given the situation of the country right now?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: We can expect an election even before December. The reason is that political consensus is the basis of the reforms that are being discussed. All political parties have already submitted their proposals. We have submitted our proposals for reforms and other parties have too. Now, it is just a matter of where there is consensus. Everyone agrees that reforms will be made in the context of consensus. Why it is not being disclosed as to where there is consensus. It should not take a long time; it should not take even a week. There is no need to invent anything new to find out where there is consensus. Just make a table that shows where there is consensus. Bring forward the issues on which there is consensus and sign what is being dubbed a 'National Charter'. So holding the election is possible in the next one or one and half months, much before the next December. The Election Commission says it is prepared, then why the delay? We don’t see any problem.
How many seats BNP can win if the election is held in December?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: It is for the people to decide. We are no one to make this decision.
Politicians are known as farsighted. How do you think the next parliament will be?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: I obviously want a vibrant parliament. We want an inclusive parliament. We want a powerful opposition party that will speak in favour of the people. We want to see good debate in parliament. The people of Bangladesh have forgotten what parliamentary debates look like.
How is it possible in absence of Awami League?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: I won’t mention any party here. I cannot decide as to which party will be there and which not, people will decide it.
Prothom Alo :
If we assume that BNP is coming to power, who is going to be the main opposition party in the next party?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: You are going back to the Sheikh Hasina era. Sheikh Hasina would decide she would be in power, and then who would be the opposition and who would be the second opposition. Sheikh Hasina has created some petty autocrats. Many people still cannot come out of the psyche to decide who will be in power and who is in opposition. We cannot afford to go back to that situation. This discussion is okay if you want to do politics without taking the people into confidence. BNP's politics is based on the people's trust and confidence. If the matter is so, then none of us have the right to decide who will come to parliament.
Prothom Alo :
How is India’s relation with BNP now? What is your thoughts about relations with India if BNP comes to power?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: Our politics is not centered on any particular party, individual or country. BNP’s politics is multilateral. From the era of Ziaur Rahman, every time BNP was in power, our international relations were multilateral. Our relations with all countries are multilateral. India is a country and an important one for us since it is our neighbour. So our foreign policy will be set keeping these aspects in mind.
India wants a democratic government in Bangladesh, and a quick election to that end. BNP also has the same wish. Detractors find a similarity of wishes here. How do you see this?
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: There is no point looking for similarity. The people of Bangladesh have the same wish. You speak about democracy, but how will democracy come without election? I’m happy that India has reached this point after so long. It is such a big neighbour of ours, it is a democratic country and it is good to see India finally understands that Bangladesh needs a democratic government, after so long. I hope India sticks to this stance.
Prothom Alo :
Professor Rehman Sobhan in an article raised a question as to how far BNP succeeded in reining in its grassroots leaders and activists. He wrote that the power vacuum created due to Awami League’s absence has been filled by BNP activists. As a result, a concern has come to the fore that old habits die hard. Despite expelling many on such charges, we don’t see any respite.
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: I will start the answer to this question this way, Awami League would always say that if it left power, BNP would kill hundreds of thousands of Awami League members. Did BNP kill any single Awami League man since the party fled? When there was no government in Bangladesh for three days, BNP was the largest party. Many diplomats from abroad have told me that if their country had been without a government for three days, many people would have left the country. But you have set a very good example. I start by giving credit to BNP for this. I would be wrong if I say nothing is happening. Over the years, Awami League men have taken away businesses of many people of BNP, they have grabbed lands of many and some people suffered a lot. Now many people are trying to get these establishments back and in some cases they are getting these back. Now it is portrayed as grabbing (by BNP men). This is one aspect.
Again, it is not that some of our leaders and activists are not carrying out usurpation and extortion in some places. But we need to see what BNP is doing. More than two thousand people have been expelled from the party. Expulsions are being made constantly and they are being shown the door even without any investigation. Why are we doing this, why is Tarique Rahman doing this? He is making a statement that such people have no place in BNP. No party in the history of Bangladesh has taken action against so many leaders and activists. On the contrary, many parties have denied responsibility for such misdeeds committed by their activists. BNP is not in power now, if it were in power, perhaps many of them would have had to go to jail. But the BNP has set an example as a party. I have already said that the political culture of Bangladesh has been destroyed. We have to admit it. BNP itself has taken the initiative to come out of it. In this case, we might require some time. As we have made this decision, it is leading us towards a solution.
Prothom Alo :
Professor Rehman Sobhan has sounded a warning in his article titled ‘Roadmap to a new political system’. He mentioned the governance and policy decisions taken by the government led by Professor Muhammad Yunus as sincere and not in personal interest. He has said that if such a governance system cannot lead to realistic changes, then Bangladesh may definitely face another era of disappointment and dissatisfaction.
Amir Khasru Mahmud Chowdhury: He is right. This is why BNP has laid out 31 points, this is why BNP is openly talking about changing political culture. It is the BNP that has brought all these ideas to the governance of the state. We have made so many sacrifices to come out of what happened in the last 15 years. What he has said is already in our plans. They (Awami League) have denied these, but we are not denying them. This is where the difference lies.
We cannot say that we have not made any mistakes. You will move towards a solution by admitting the mistakes you made and therein lies BNP’s success. BNP is trying to find something better in the coming days based on this.