Why are you suddenly posting up a Facebook status answering the question “Who are we”? What are you trying to say through this status?
Nasiruddin Patwary: In a talk show recently, the chief organiser of the Students against Discrimination Movement Abdul Hannan Masud was asked, who are you all to speak about Awami League? We faced such questions when we began our movement too. Divisive politics has been continuing for long on Bangladesh. When any person is asked their identity and not given respect as a citizen, when things have arrived at such a point, that is when we came up with the answer to "who are we".
Prothom Alo :
Such questions didn't arise when Jatiya Nagorik Committee (National Citizens Committee) was first launched. Why has this suddenly cropped up?
Nasiruddin Patwary: After 1971 the aspirations of the liberation war were stolen away with the formation of BAKSAL. After the 1990 uprising, the two parties did the same. The people this time in 2024 spontaneously join the movement and now they are being asked "who are you?" Now many parties and groups imagine they are the ones who carried out the uprising. But it is the common people who carried out the uprising. Questions are now being raised about these common people. We are giving the reply.
BNP is one of the two parties you have mentioned. The party did have involvement in the student-peoples movement and the mass uprising. But after the uprising, differences have cropped between you all and BNP. Why has such a situation arisen?
Nasiruddin Patwary: The mass movement this time was not carried out by any organised force. It had spontaneity. After the uprising when we tried to unify these forces to create an organised force, the party felt threatened. When we are in the process of organising the forces of the uprising, we have come under attack in Barishal and other places. They do not want the forces of the mass uprising to become an organised force.
Prothom Alo :
Is it because the country is going through an election process that a gap is growing between you and BNP?
Nasiruddin Patwary: The mass uprising had indicated that the struggle or gap ahead will be between the old establishment and the new order. The young elements within BNP itself do not want the old system. And that is why they leapt into the movement. At that time they confused those young elements too. There is a unity, bond between each and every person except for Awami League and their collaborators. Now a gap is appearing between this unity and the old establishment. Students carried out the 1990 movement. Later the elders stole that movement in the shape of their party or structure. The same is being done in 2024. There is an effort to divert that uprising forces of the young generation and impose the old order upon the people of Bangladesh. They are saying, "We have been struggling for long, so who are you now to come up and talk anew?" The people of the old establishment who had been tucked away and holed up in various nooks after the mass uprising, are now raising these questions to mislead the people.
Prothom Alo :
Let's come to a recent matter. A statement of yours about the councillors who have been removed (from the city corporations and pourashavas), evoked strong reaction and criticism from leaders and activists of BNP at various levels. They say that since you all are in the process of forming a new party, you want to use those councillors at a grassroots level.
Nasiruddin Patwary: Those of Awami League among the councillors, opened fire and shot at the students in the movement. Many of the councillors who were collaborators of Awami League, have fled. That is why the government has dropped all councillors. But there were independent councillors among them too. Why were they dropped? They weren't involved with Awami League.
The government is working through a certain process. How can councillors remain in certain wards and not in others...
Nasiruddin Patwary: Those in Awami League and the fascists were supposed to have been removed. Why will the independent persons be dropped?
Prothom Alo :
Did you all oppose the government move when they were removing the councillors?
Nasiruddin Patwary: No, we did not. The independent candidates were dropped because they took part in the elections staged by Awami League. The independents who have been dropped are paying for their wrongs. Those who were not of any party, are not councillors now. They are common people. Now if administrators are appointed to the wards (city corporation and pourashava), should they be selected from among the bureaucracy or from among the public? That is where I had said that the administrators should not be from the civil service. The administrators should be from among the people. This is essential in order to ensure local government services at a marginal level. This can't be done by the bureaucracy. The independent councillors have paid for their sins by means of their removal, and now they are common members of the public. Like others, they too can become administrators. They are much more connected with the people. So, why should their rights be curtailed? This is what we wanted to address.
Prothom Alo :
What BNP basically was saying is that this process may imply legitimacy of the elections held under the Awami League government.
Nasiruddin Patwary: How? We hadn't even once said that anyone should be rehabilitated. The independent persons are no longer councillors. If they had been part of the student-people's uprising, why can't I ask them to participate in the Jatiya Nagorik Committee?
Do you think that the BNP leaders' contentions are not justified?
Nasiruddin Patwary: These are certainly not justified. Have you seen Mirza Fakhrul Islam Alamgir's letter? He has recommended the appointment of 19 (of those removed from the offices of mayor) to the position of administrators. So why is he making such a recommendation? How has BNP's Shahadat Hossain become mayor in Chattogram? The government, the state is placing certain people in administrative positions. We will naturally talk about functionalising these matters at a state level. We want to hold the state accountable. Now no one will be councillors, they will be administrators. The person who is independent, is just a common person like you or me. On what basis are their rights being curbed?
Do you want the local government elections before the national election?
Nasiruddin Patwary: The local government elections should be held speedily. We have not taken any decision at the national forum about whether these should be before the national election. But we want public service through the local government. We want to see a functioning local government.
Prothom Alo :
Will you place any proposal with the government concerning local government?
Nasiruddin Patwary: We have two observations in our forum. Firstly, we do not want the local government to be run by bureaucracy. Secondly, those who are independent, no collaborators of Awami League, should be made administrators.
Prothom Alo :
So you want those who were part of the student-people's movement to be placed where administrators are being appointed...
Nasiruddin Patwary: Yes. We are talking about those who were part of the movement, who are not with Awami League or are not its collaborators, those who are efficient, qualified, those who are not involved in corruption and extortion. We have no problem even if they are BNP people.
Prothom Alo :
It is being said in political circles that another King's party is in the making and the fingers are pointing towards you all.
Nasiruddin Patwary: Is the head of the interim government he member of any party? Ziaur Rahman (former president, former army chief and founder of BNP) wanted to form a party and so a King's party was formed -- BNP. He did this while sitting in government. There is no way to deny that BNP was a King's party.
Prothom Alo :
You think BNP is a King's party?
Nasiruddin Patwary: Yes, BNP is certainly Bangladesh's first King's party.
Prothom Alo :
Now the indications are towards you all.
Nasiruddin Patwary: We are not forming any King's party. The chief adviser Muhammad Yunus has no desire to form a party. Are those in the advisory council interested in forming a party?
It is the people of the uprising forces that will decide when and how we will form a party. There will be communication about this with the leadership of the Students against Discrimination. We in the Jatiya Nagorik Committee will assist them. The tentative time for declaring the party is around two months. We hope to be able to organise thana and upazila committees by then. Then when a position is reached, we will form district committees. We will go from the lower to the top. Jatiya Nagorik Committee's formation of committees at the thana and upazila level is not directly linked to forming a party.
There are three student representatives who are linked with you all in the council of advisors at present.
Nasiruddin Patwary: Did the student representatives want to form any party? Why is this being said? This could be said only if Nahid Islam, Asif Mahmud or Mafuj Alam were part of the process to form a party. The administration, the advisors, the chief advisor, none of them is in our hands. So how can we form a King's party? When three of us have gone into the government, our link with them have been severed. Are they in any of our platforms?
The advisors of the interim government have no interest in forming any party. It is not their duty either. It is not the government that is forming a party, it is the students. That makes it clear that this is no King's party.
Prothom Alo :
Then why is this being speculated?
Nasiruddin Patwary: BNP is repeatedly misleading the nation in this matter.
Prothom Alo :
But why would BNP suddenly be so irate with you?
Nasiruddin Patwary: While we are smoothly going ahead with uniting the forces of the mass uprising, we are also thwarting BNP's extorting and tender manipulations. We are talking about the abolishing fascist order. We have directly pointed out to the people how they are not allowing the constitution to be changed, how Chuppu (President Md Shahabuddin) is being kept in place. This has made them uncomfortable. Even after taking part i the mass uprising if BNP holds on to its attachment with the old fascist system, we will clearly oppose them in that area. After all, we have a commitment to the nation.
After forming a political party, what will the task of the Jatiya Nagorik Committee be?
Nasiruddin Patwary: The Students against Discrimination Movement and the Jatiya Nagorik Committee will always remain as a pressure group. The Students against Discrimination Movement and the Jatiya Nagorik Committee will have a relationship with the political party that will involve observation and accountability. Just as we are catching out BNP's extortion and tender manipulations, if the new party that we are helping to be formed becomes fascist in nation, if they resort to extortion and tender manipulations, we will force them to be accountable to the people too.
Prothom Alo :
After forming a political party, what will be the role of the people now in charge of the Nagorik Committee? Will you be at the leadership of the political party?
Nasiruddin Patwary: There are three types of people in Anti-Discrimination Student Movement and Jatiya Nagorik Committee who joined the mass uprising. Those who directly joined the uprising as revolutionaries, the second component is professionals or civil society members and the third section comprises politically conscious people who want to join democratic process. Those who are interested in politics and want to join politics will go to the party. Revolutionaries and professionals will stay at the Nagorik Committee. If anyone directly involved with politics wants not to engage with politics at some point, they will be able to return to the revolutionary and professional ‘formats’. It is not possible to understand before the party is formed.
Prothom Alo :
Whom you are considering as president and general secretary of your party?
Nasiruddin Patwary: We are yet to ponder over the issue. There are many proposals that someone from outside who we have not even seen can be in these positions.
Prothom Alo :
Do you have any plan to make members of the civil society president and general secretary of your party? Or would anyone from other parties join you?
Nasiruddin Patwary: We are yet to determine who will be at the helm of our party. We don’t have much time. However, if the people of Bangladesh accept someone as our leader in this time, he will be our leader.
Prothom Alo :
Will the party join the next general election?
Nasiruddin Patwary: A deep crisis will emerge if the election is held before the trial of Awami League…
Prothom Alo :
Trial is a time-consuming matter. If the trial of the Awami League takes a few years, won't there be an election in Bangladesh by then?
Let there be an election, but we want the trial. We consider Awami League to be a murderous political party.
Prothom Alo :
Elections after the trial of the Awami League or elections without the Awami League—which do you want?
Nasiruddin Patwary: We want the trial of the Awami League first, then elections.
Prothom Alo :
Do you want elections without Awami League within the possible timeframe announced by the chief adviser?
Nasiruddin Patwary: We have not taken any decision on the timing of the election yet. We want the trial process (of Awami League) to begin first. If we go to polls without initiating the trial process, Bangladesh will be pushed towards a civil war. The country will be in a deep crisis.
Prothom Alo :
What will be your stance if the trial process does not finish within the probable timeframe announced by the chief adviser?
Nasiruddin Patwary: BNP wants both election and trial. So do we. Democracy was one of the major aspirations of those who were martyred. If we can wait till the trial before holding the election, Bangladesh will move forward in the right direction for the next 50 to 100 years.
Prothom Alo :
There is a discussion that delaying the election will benefit your party as it will take some time for your party to expand across the country. What is your take on this allegation?
Nasiruddin Patwary: We have banked on the people. I asked a rickshaw puller about the direction the country is heading. He replied, "One thief has left while another thief is waiting to take over." We no longer want any thieves.
Do you want a ban of Awami League?
Nasiruddin Patwary: There are many layers in Awami League—killers, beneficiaries and accomplices. There is an issue as to how much Awami League as a party will stand on trial after the trial of the killings. Whether Awami League will be banned as a party will be decided by the trial process. Chhatra League was banned abruptly without any trial or forming any commission. The Chhatra League should have been banned through a trial process. You cannot ban Awami League just by issuing a gazette notification. It must be brought under trial. That trial will determine whether Awami League should be banned. A commission can be formed to take the decision.
Prothom Alo :
Many believe that you are taking up am anti-Indian sentiment from the party. Will there be anything about this this in your party’s constitution?
Nasiruddin Patwary: We are not against any state or nation identity. But, we want a glorified Bengal where people would have dignity. This is actually a fight for dignity, a fight for honour. If India starts tugging down our honour instead of being friendly, that’s where the fight begins. So, it’s not the question of anti-Indian sentiment, it’s the question of dignity. Bangladesh has to be treated with dignity. It’s not just India, if any other country speaks in the matter of Bangladesh’s dignity and honour we are ready to reply unitedly on that question.
You have been criticising different activities of the interim government. Do you think the government is taking measures accordingly?
It’s happening in certain instances with exceptions in other cases. That’s why we are going to the people. This is not going to work with just five or six voices. The public has to speak in unison. For example, there was a reaction among the people regarding the latest expansion in the advisory council, but the government did not pay heed to it.
Prothom Alo :
What’s your evaluation of the initiatives or efforts from the government on the matter of reducing the prices of daily essentials?
The marginalised population facing unbearable sufferings due to the price hike. We want the government to find a solution to this fast. The syndicates of different political parties are still active even now. The syndicates and the tenders have switched hands only. In this case, the old fascist system is still in place to a large extent. We are trying to break from that.
Prothom Alo :
Mob justice hasn’t stopped and the situation hasn’t improved much in case of ensuring people’s safety. What’s your opinion on that?
Mob justice won’t stop unless the government can make the law and order enforcement forces more active and organised. We are mobilising the spirit of mass uprising to end mob justice. Without organised power, there can be no solution.
On a scale of 10, what ratings will you give the interim government for the price hike and law enforcement?
We can give a rating of three or four to the interim government on the both criteria of price hike and law enforcement.
Many of those who had actively participated in the movement are now speaking of security threats. Even there are claims of clandestine killings.
There have been no clandestine killings but the threats are there. A conspiracy is being hatched outside the country to carry out a massacre. An online platform named ‘A Team’ has even called for killing people through direct attacks.
Prothom Alo :
How far are the political parties cooperating with this government?
Some of the political parties are busy sharing the spoils. The government is not getting much support from them. Although they are speaking of cooperation in words, no cooperation can be found in deed. The members of a particular party have occupied posts in different government offices after the interim government took charge. They are constantly applying pressure on various offices to implement their party agenda. As a result, the bureaucracy of the government is failing to work impartially.
Prothom Alo :
Thank you.
Thank you too.