Q :
You declared a ‘one-point’ demand on 12 July for the resignation of the government. Within a fortnight you called for a public rally in Dhaka. The just four days later you are holding the 'Tanunyer Samabesh' or ‘youth rally’ on 27 July. You have taken up major programmes in a very short span of time. Does that mean you are now at the ultimate stages of the movement?
We certainly have reached the final phases of the movement. As we have announced one-point demand, that means we are heading towards the final stages of the movement. The one-point is the resignation of the government. We demand its resignation because this government is basically an illegal one. The fifteenth amendment, through which the caretaker government system was abolished, was passed unlawfully. The government which came consequently is an illegitimate one. Secondly, there was no election in 2018. So, this government cannot be a legal one anyway. That is why we said initially, this illegal government must resign.
Thirdly, this parliament is not legal either and must be dissolved. Power must be handed over to a neutral government. Then we said a new election commission must be formed which will conduct a fresh election. In light of those demands we announced our one-point. The first thing is they have to resign. That is why you may say the movement has reached its final stages now.
Q :
You are announcing one big programme after the another. The government must have a strategy too. What if they don’t permit the mass rally or if a situation like 10 December is created?
We are not seeking permission from the government. What we do every time is we let them know. Then the police tell us to hold the programme here or there so that the traffic is not disrupted. We have discussed with them in that manner, informing them that we want to hold the rally. Let them give the options, we shall assemble in Dhaka. We shall hold the public rally. We are determined.
Q :
You are calling for the resignation of Sheikh Hasina and Awami League is saying the election must be held under Sheikh Hasina. So isn't politics heading towards confrontation?
The government started it first. They said there will be no dialogue, who bothers about dialogue with BNP? Then said that the election must be held according to this constitution and must be held under Sheikh Hasina. They (the government) are not keeping any way open. On our side, we are forced to say that they must resign now. There is no option.
Q :
So the politics is heading towards clashes and conflict?
We do not want any conflict or clashes. We believe do not believe in this. But unfortunately, when the fifteenth amendment was passed by abolishing the provision of caretaker government in 2011, that sparked off the clashes. On that very day, our chairperson at a press conference in this Gulshan office said politics of instability, uncertainty and clashes had been initiated. The words of Madam (Khaleda Zia) have been proven right today. Look at the last few years -- 2014 and 2018 saw clashes. The government has snatched away the voting rights of the people through the power of its state apparatus.
Q :
What shape will the final stage of the movement take?
We have publicly stated that we want to achieve victory through the mass uprising of the people.
Q :
But the government will not allow an environment conducive to a mass uprising and will obstruct it.
No government ever allows an environment for mass uprising. The people create it.
Q :
Have such circumstances been created?
We feel the present circumstances are is like that. People no longer want this government.
Q :
What sort of programmes do you want to declare in the coming days?
Every programme we take is centered on the public. Ours are a completely peaceful, non-violent programmes. We will have programmes that involve the people, we will have rallies and sit-ins.
Q :
What about hartal (strikes), blockades and such programmes>
We have said we will not call for hartals. We shall not go for any violent programme. We did not do so and won’t do so. You can see that we have not held such programmes. All our programmes will be peaceful.
Q :
But as the election comes closer, the inflexible stand of the government will create obstacles. How can you control things then?
That is entirely the responsibility of the government. We will stick to what we announced. So far, we have also proved that we can carry out our programmes peacefully. Even in the face of all provocations, we did not even budge from that stand. If anything else happens, it is entirely the responsibility of the government.
Q :
On 12 July, both BNP and Awami League held large rallies in Dhaka, while a delegation from the European Union and US Under Secretary Uzra Zeya were in Dhaka. However, immediately after Uzra Zeya left, BNP's march across the country was interrupted and there were clashes. One died in Laxmipur. What made the government aggressive again?
The government is always aggressive. It is using the state apparatus to hold onto its illegal power. Just when the foreigners were here, perhaps the government did not over react in front of them. But things are happening.
Q :
Do you think the visa policy adopted by the US will affect a fair election? Is the government feeling the pressure?
The pressure is evident. The pressure is so much that the prime minister and ministers have started speaking nonsensically. The prime minister upon her return from the US said that we want to oust her. That means she is under pressure. She said that if she had handed over St. Martin's, there would have been no problem. Had she given gas, there would be no problem. These words proved that they were under pressure. But what about the pressure from the people? If they don't feel that pressure, then Awami League is an irresponsible political party.
Is there any diplomatic move to bring about a compromise?
Are the diplomats (foreigners) running around for that? I don’t think so. I haven’t seen such move so far. For example, the EU has come to evaluate whether they will send their election observers. They did not have words regarding compromise.
Q :
Are the foreigners saying anything about a caretaker government, about whether there should be such a government or not?
No, they haven't said that. What they say directly is that they want participatory, inclusive, free and fair elections. They don't go beyond that. However, it is clear from their body language and statements that they really want to see free and fair elections this time. The US has taken certain measures (visa policy) targeting the election.
Q :
Awami League alleges BNP was behind bringing in the foreigners and starting these activities
BNP has no role in this. The role here is entirely of the government. The failure of the government, their betrayal of democracy, a sham—that is the reason. The main reason for foreign involvement is that no elections were held in the last two (2014 and 2018) terms.
You are talking about a non-partisan government. But there is no provision for such a government in the constitution. What is your framework for a non-partisan government?
The simple thing is that they (the government) have an absolute majority in parliament. We did it too (in 1996). Let them do that as well. BNP had to do that through a by-election. It is easier for them because the parliament is still active and they have more than two-thirds majority. They can make the amendment (to the constitution) easily. Another thing they can do is say, yes, we will form a neutral government. Once they say that, they can start talking with the political parties. All they have to do is announce that there will be a non-partisan government.
Q :
Both parties are at opposite poles. How will they reach the consensus?
The government should take initiative for this. What I have always said is that the one in the driving seat has to take the initiative. They are in government so they have to take the initiative. No one else will take the initiative. To get out of this crisis they have to take the initiative to say that we will have a caretaker government. It is not very difficult. The way they canceled it, the same way today they can amend it in parliament.
Q :
You say if the government accepts the issue of non-partisan government, then there can be dialogue. The government should take that initiative. But the government will not go beyond the constitution. They are saying that elections will be held under Sheikh Hasina. So is there any scope for dialogue?
I don't see any statement as final. There is no such thing as the last word in politics. It has to be accepted by yielding to the demands and pressure of the people. The government will be obliged to do so. It is best for the government to make a safe exit. They should accept a non-party system of government which will hold an election. They should do that. It will be good for them politically, democratically and morally.
Q :
You are in a simultaneous movement with different parties and alliances. Jamaat-e-Islami is not with you in the simultaneous movement. Jamaat is doing its own movement. What is your take on that?
Jamaat is doing their own politics. For example, we are conducting a simultaneous movement with the Democracy Forum or some other parties and alliances. Apart from this, some other parties, Labour Party, Oli Ahmed's party LDP and Gonoforum are in the movement. On the other hand, the Communist Party said that the elections will not be fair under this government. Pir Saheb of Charmonai said the same thing. Even Jatiya Party’s GM Quader said the government prepares the election result beforehand. Now almost all parties in the country are saying that there will be no fair elections under this government.
But the BNP had an alliance with Jamat. What is the relationship of BNP with Jamat now?
That alliance is dismantled. Jamaat is doing their own politics. We have no links in this regard.
Q :
Some parties are alleging that the government is trying to break various parties ahead of the election. When the election comes nearer these sort of allegations are raised against the incumbents. Th same has happened this time. Does your party sense something like that?
These sorts of attempts exist. One can understand by observing the registration of political parties. Those who have no activity, are given registration. And those who have been doing politics for so long, were not given registration. Can you understand the purpose of the government? The government has no respect for the aspirations of the people. They have to go for elections by any means—they (the government) have prepared the election project. We did not expect Awami League would do what they did in the last three terms. Absolutely typical! Like those military governments, they want to stay in power by through their misdeeds, including breaking the parties.
Q :
What you are saying is the government has made an election project and plan. There are rumours that a part of the BNP leaders shall join the plan. What do you say about that?
Such things happen all the time. I always say, if anyone leaves BNP, that will be tantamount to suicide for them. Because, no one benefited by exiting the BNP. You see, a big man like Badruddoza Chowdhury made a separate party, but he could not do anything. Moudud bhai had to return. Obaidur Rahman had to return as well. There is no benefit in going out of the main group.
It is said BNP wants to give a final thrust through the one-point movement. How will you do it?
I don’t think it was the final thrust. This is the last thrust for them (the government). They think our thrust is the final thrust for them. The Awami League has become politically bankrupt. The Awami League would have no problem if they did politics. As soon as they left politics and depended on military-civilian bureaucracy and when they started heading towards the one-party rule, they became bankrupt. They did not show minimum honour and respect to politics. If you look at their way of speaking, that is not democratic. They say they put us through the sieve. What kind of language is this? We would never expect such language from a prime minister.
Do you believe BNP will ascend to power this time?
Whether BNP will come to power or not, that is not the main matter to us. The main issue for us is whether the people will get their voting rights back. We did not talk about BNP. We have said that if we go to the elections after the movement and we are victorious in that election, then we will form the national government with all the parties participating in the movement. We are thinking about ruling the state through national consensus.
Q :
Speculations are rife over who will lead BNP, who shall be the prime minister if it comes to power?
We have answered that very clearly. Whether we are triumphant in our election or not, our leader is Khaleda Zia. In her absence our leader is Tarique Rahman. We did not make any changes to it. There can be no questions about it.
* The interview, originally appeared in the print and online edition of Prothom Alo, has been rewritten in English by Syed Faiz Ahmed