Dr Selim Jahan is the former director of UNDP's Human Development Report Office. In an interview with Prothom Alo's Monoj Dey, he speaks about the limitations in Bangladesh's human resource development policies, the frustrations and potential of the country's youth, weaknesses in the education system and the way out of multidimensional disparity.
In search of fortune, the youth of our country are taking perilous routes to Europe via Libya, and even dying along the way. Why are the youth overlooked in our human development considerations?
Selim Jahan: This is a very relevant question. When we speak of human development, we are referring to the development of an entire population. We have to keep in mind that human development is not just about the present, but about the future too.
Our policymakers, political leaders do not attach adequate importance to the aspirations and expectations of the youth, their hopes, their potential, their competence. When it comes to struggles and movements, when it comes to calling for change, then we bring our youth forward, but once the struggles and movements are a success, then the youth are overlooked.
Prothom Alo :
Despite being aware of the high risks of death, why are a section of youth so desperate to leave the country?
Selim Jahan: There are two reasons behind this. One, in economic terms this is called the cause of demand and the crisis caused by this demand. Our youth would never embark on such perilous journeys had the state be able to create opportunities for them. Two, all people nurture dreams of a better life, a good life, a life of opportunities. When youth see these opportunities outside of their country, when they see youth of other countries availing such opportunities, they are naturally drawn towards that. But they have to take risks, they have to risk their lives to avail those opportunities. That is totally unacceptable.
The state has an important role to play here. There needs to be bilateral and multilateral discussions on a global scale with other states about the potential of our youth, how other countries can create opportunities for them.
Many view issues such as human development and poverty alleviation as NGO matters. Many say these are matters for policymaker discussions. But why have these issues not become considerations of the general people?
Selim Jahan: People would view these as their own matters of consideration if they could see their aspirations finding place in policy planning, policymaking and policy implementation. When we talk about human development, we present these so vaguely in our plans, our budget, that people do not really connect to it. For instance, when the matter of human development comes up, there is talk of human resource development, human resources and so on. But if we directly say that human resource development means that work opportunities must be given to people, they must be given training opportunities, then these would make sense to the people. These direct matters are not reflected in our budget, in our planning.
Even when it comes to poverty alleviation, we see poverty alleviation policies. These speak of fund generation for poverty alleviation, of investing funds. But poverty is not merely a theoretical matter. The person who is poor, the person who is marginal, comes face to face with poverty every moment of his life. So people can only find relevance of the poverty alleviation processes of these are taken to their doorsteps. For example, if we provide a farmer with seeds, fertiliser and irrigation facilities, if government assistance is given to those involved in rural industry, then people will feel that poverty alleviation is not mere rhetoric.
Prothom Alo :
You had worked with the United National Development Programme (UNDP) for long. From that experience, can you tell us how far Bangladesh has been able to give importance to human development in global considerations?
Selim Jahan: I am unfortunate to have worked in this area for a long period of time and I have experience of working in Africa, Latin America, in the Arab world and in Asia. Every country and every region has its own problems, perceptions and cultural considerations. But the people of all countries have a certain expectation when it comes to human development. In Bangladesh many of us feel that we understand the problems and we also understand the solutions. I feel our policymakers, our political personalities and our academics have a sort of arrogance.
All sorts of experiments and research are being carried out worldwide on human development and poverty alleviation. There are all sorts of successes and failures. We need to take lessons from these experiences. Growth is given huge importance in Bangladesh development philosophy. We get caught up in meaningless arguments over whether our growth is 6 per cent or 8 per cent. Growth is not something isolated. The actual purpose of growth is to expand people's development. We failed to bring human development issues to the forefront due to excessive emphasis on growth in Bangladesh.
The technology revolution has taken the work ahead in leaps and bounds. The skills that we needed in the past have changed now. The students emerging from Bangladesh's education system will not only have to compete with students of this country, but with students of other countries too
But our life expectancy is 72.3 years, in India it is 70. Our under 5-year-old child mortality rate has fallen to under 22 per 1000, in India it is 34. We have made progress in several such indexes.
Selim Jahan: There are many reasons behind this. We have managed to provide social services in many areas. Also, non-government organisations have operated in these areas. That is why we have successes in these areas. However, if we want to link this to our growth, we will see that growth has hardly had contribution to improving people's quality of living.
We are living in a global sphere where there exists South-South cooperation. It is not as if in today's world we can only learn from the developed world, that we must adopt their technologies. Brazil, Nigeria, India and such countries are carrying out all sorts of experimentations in poverty alleviation, social security and such. Bangladesh can learn a lot by joining the South-South cooperation scene.
We still get engrossed with resources and growth in our planning and budget preparation. But at the end of the day, it is people who must be at the centre of development. We must speak about people's capacity, we must eliminate people's deprivation. Until and unless we can ensure development for the people, of the people and by the people in our development perceptions and processes, we will not be able to meet the aspired human development and poverty alleviation.
Prothom Alo :
You have often spoken about the ethical side of human development. Can you expand on that?
Selim Jahan: There needs to be a philosophical and ethical background to the issue of development. Development is not an abstract concept. Development is not just about achieving growth and reducing poverty. I want to lay stress on three issues pertaining to the ethics of human development. One, disparity. Some may maintain that disparity is a matter of economics. But the bottom line is that disparity has an ethical aspect. Disparity should not reach such a level in a society where one person gets all sorts of benefits and facilities, and other lives a sub-human life. The ethical side of disparity must prevail in our development thoughts.
Two, is it all about material development? Is it simply about increasing people's capacity and opportunities? I feel that the rights and dignity of every individual is a significant part of development. We can achieve material development, we can increase people's capacity, but in society if people lack harmony among each other, if they do not respect each other, then what is the meaning of that development? After we achieve material development, if we lose our forbearance, if we lose our tolerance, then the actual meaning of development, the objective of development is lost.
A culture of terror has grown in our society today. Violence has become our language. We have witnessed a spree of destruction over the past few days in Dhanmondi road 32 and other places, we have seen incidence of violence. Such violence is in no way warranted. We may have differences of opinion, we may be enraged for various reasons. But we can resort to debate and discussion, meetings and gatherings to assuage that anger, not resort to violence.
Thirdly, Bangladesh's society has become incredibly materialistic. Money and power have become the benchmark of success. The question of ethics is vital here too. If we cannot jointly bring about development of the society, then the objective of development will fail.
Can we think of any country that is such a model of development?
Selim Jahan: I can think of the small Latin American country Costa Rica. Then there is Cuba. In these two countries, people's dignity, respect and ethics in development feature strongly in their development thinking and development planning. Costa Rica has no army. While other countries spend huge amounts in the military sector, Costa Rica investments those funds in social welfare, healthcare and public education. In that sense Costa Rica is a model country.
Prothom Alo :
Disparity has reached a precarious height in Bangladesh. How can human development be brought about amid such disparity?
Selim Jahan: We must pay attention to the degree of disparity to which you refer. Bangladesh's Gini Coefficient has reached 0.49. When the coefficient is 0.5, it has reached a severe level of inequality. Gini Coefficient is a measure based on income. We need to emerge from this just the coefficient of economic disparity in our discussions on disparity. There is urban-rural disparity, gender disparity, South-North disparity, disparity between ethnic communities and Bengalis. This diversity of disparity is related. But we often project disparity in a very disjointed manner. That is wrong. We just look at the results. In countries like Bangladesh, the disparity in results begins with the disparity in opportunities. We can never build a balanced society or balanced economy if we have three of four different standards of education and healthcare in the country.
Another type of disparity must also be mentioned here. This is the disparity between the generation of today and the generation of the days to come. Take the environment, for instance. We are using the environment to benefit and facilitate the present generation. But we do not stop to think that if we destroy the environment, the future generation will not be able to use this for their human development.
If the type of disparity, the quality of the disparity, the degree of disparity that exists in Bangladesh at present continues as it is, then we will not be able to achieve the aspired level of human development.
Education is an important component of human development. But it is hard to find any compatibility between our education system and employment.
Selim Jahan: Education is extremely important in human development, undoubtedly. The basic question here is, what is the actual objective of education? If we look at primary education, then the objective is to increase literacy. The objective of secondary education is to create skills and work competence. In university education, a person achieves creative faculties, independent thinking and aptitude to analyse. If this benchmark is used to assess Bangladesh's education sector, we will see that at the end of the day we are merely churning out people with certificates, not educated people. We have sidestepped quality for quantity. The qualitative aspect of education is intrinsically linked to disparity in education opportunities. Where elite schools have one teacher for every 20 students, in government schools there is one teacher for every 150 students. It is only natural that a qualitative disparity will emerge.
A student will only be able to learn when a teacher is trained, committed to education and concentrates on education. If a teacher has to pay attention to all sorts of other things, like any other civil servant, if a teacher's salary in inadequate, we will never get a teacher who can elevate the system of education.
The technology revolution has taken the work ahead in leaps and bounds. The skills that we needed in the past have changed now. The students emerging from Bangladesh's education system will not only have to compete with students of this country, but with students of other countries too. So the question in our education system should be whether we can fare will in global competition. We cannot simply carry out education management, education planning for today, but we must focus on the next 15 to 20 years.
Prothom Alo :
We have reduced changes in the education system to mere changes in the syllabus and curriculum. How do we emerge from this?
Selim Jahan: We also have tried to view our syllabus and curriculum from a political angle. We try to reflect the mindset, viewpoint of whatever government is in power, in our syllabus and curriculum. There are certain matters that are always relevant, that students of all generations need to know. It is extremely unfortunate when we damage such matters to highlight political interests.
Education reforms are not short-term matters. We can't change education overnight. It is a long-term process. A government that comprises representative elected by the people can take up the task of long-term reforms in the education system. When we talk about educational reforms, the issues of curriculum and syllabus arise. But unless we take into consideration the teaching process, the training of teachers or the matter of subjects to be included with the future in mind, we will not be able to bring about the required changes.
No education system can overlook matters pertaining to the undisputed truth, to the fundamentals.
Prothom Alo :
Thank you.
Selim Jahan: Thank you too.
* This interview appeared in the print and online edition of Prothom Alo and has been rewritten for the English edition by Ayesha Kabir