Prothom Alo :
A sort of unrest is visible in the police administration after power change hands on 5 August this year. While most members of the police force have resumed duties, many of them seem inactive. Why has this situation come about?
Mohammad Nurul Huda: The fact is that after the exit of the fascist government, the police administration broke down. That is why after the change of power, a large section of the police remained absent from their workplace. Such a situation arises when long-standing irregularities become the norm. The members of the law enforcement agency, that is the police, carry out their duties under the law. But the problems arise when they serve the interests of certain individuals and groups rather than work under the law.
During the rule of the last government, from the statements issued by the president and general secretary of the Police Association, it seemed that they were not employees of the republic, but protectors of party interests. Rather than displaying their professional efficiency to their political masters, many of them would highlight when and where they had been in Chhatra League. And the political leadership completely condoned this.
Another reason behind the inactivity of the police after power changed hands, is the attacks on various police stations. The government has taken steps to rebuild the police's morale, but this will take some time to be effective.
Prothom Alo :
The government, that is the law enforcement agencies, takes various actions based on intelligence information. Do you think the intelligence could foresee some of the mishaps that have taken place in recent times in various places of the country?
Muhammad Nurul Huda: It is the same problem in this case. The function of the intelligence agencies is to protect state interests. They are to function under their charter. But the problems evolve when instead of doing that, they place priority on the interests of certain individuals and groups. That is what had happened. In many instances, the concerned persons mix up the state with the government. They see the government's interests as state interests.
As a force meant to serve the people, the police must increase their capacity and efficiency. They must work in the interests of the state and the people, not in the interests of the government. The intelligence should have known in advance about the recent untoward incidents inside and outside the secretariat. It is true that many officers of the secretariat had been victims of discrimination. But that cannot be resolve by grabbing chairs or forcefully making anyone resign. Decisions must be taken within the rules and regulations.
Prothom Alo :
What is the reason behind the unrest that has broken out in two districts of the Chittagong Hill Tracts over the past few days?
Muhammad Nurul Huda: An incident in the Chittagong Hill Tracts sparked off clashes and arson. The mistrust that has been created between the hill people and the Bengalis living there must be resolved. But that is a task for the civil administration. The armed forces can be there for law and order.
Discussions must be held with sensitive representatives of the Bengali and hill community and efforts must be made to address their needs and grievances. It must also be seen whether there is any outside instigation behind the recent incidents in Chittagong Hill Tracts. The government must understand the land ownership is the fundamental problem in the hills. Unless the land problem is resolved, the hills will not see permanent peace.
It must be kept in mind that the Chittagong Hill Tracts' problems are political. These cannot be resolved by military operations. The Chittagong Hills Tracts peace accord was signed over 25 years ago. Yet the loan district councils are still not in effect. It is only natural for the hill people to be aggrieved about this.
Prothom Alo :
The interim government has formed a commission aimed at police reforms. An initiative for reforms in the police administration had been taken up earlier too. Why was this not implemented?
Mohammad Nurul Huda: It was not implemented because the government didn't want it to be implemented. In 2007-2007 the military-backed caretaker government took up many reform initiatives. It formed a local government commission. But these reforms create problems. Interests are disrupted. That is why the elected government dropped the reforms. That is the character of our political parties. In the case of any reforms, we have to keep ground reality in mind. If I give precedence to the interests of any party, group or persons rather than the interests of the country, then reforms will make no difference.
This is organised frenzy. The word 'justice' doesn't even apply here. The unpleasant truth is that this tendency exists in our society. We react more than we act
Prothom Alo :
How can the police be reactivated and their morale restored?
Mohammad Nurul Huda: First we must see why their morale has fallen. The political leadership used them for their personal and group interests. And this didn't happen only during Awami League's rule. This has been on for years. Then again, there are many among the police that have indulged in wrongdoings for the sake of financial gain. They forgot their duties to the republic and behave like party activists. The members of the police can do two things to regain public confidence.
They can organise open discussions to give ear to the complaints and grievances of the people. This can be attended by people from all walks of life. This will restore public confidence in the police. Secondly, the police need to express their condolences and empathy towards the families of those who were killed or injured in the recent mass movement. The police association can provide financial assistance to the victim families.
The police force can use their emergency number 999 with more efficiency. If the police can assure the people that no one will be harassed or tortured by them in the future, then public confidence in them will be restored.
Prothom Alo :
There have been complaints of indiscriminate arrests in recent times. There are over a hundred accused in a single case. Then the FIR or some cases revised and new names are added as the accused. Will such cases bode well for justice?
Mohammad Nurul Huda: These cases are being filed under pressure from various quarters. The police's task is to speedily complete investigations in these cases and then come up with final reports regarding the allegations that have no basis. Then the cases that have basis or evidence, should be probed. It must be kept in mind that our judicial law is on the side of the accused. Unless the charges are proved beyond doubt, no one can be punished.
Prothom Alo :
Two persons were killed in outbursts of mob justice. Similar incidents happened before too. One of the victims was mentally unwell. What to do think about all this?
Mohammad Nurul Huda: I am unwilling to dub this as mob justice. This is organised frenzy. The word 'justice' doesn't even apply here. The unpleasant truth is that this tendency exists in our society. We react more than we act. It is simply not believable that a mentally imbalance boy was stealing.
The university administration is as responsible as the frenzied students for the mentally imbalanced boy Tofazzal being beaten to death. They beat up the boy for one hour, yet the administration took no action. Dhaka Medical College Hospital is right next to Fazlul Huq Hall, but they took him to Shahbagh police station first instead of the hospital. At Jahangirnagar University too, the administration was extremely negligent. They locked the accused in a room, but did not bother to keep guard or hand him over to the police. If the administration just sit back during such mass frenzy, such tragic incidents will simply continue to occur. The reforms we are talking about must start from the individual, then the institutions and then the state.
Prothom Alo :
There has been stern criticism of the police indiscriminately opening fire on the protestors during the recent movement. It is being said that the police crossed all limits.
Mohammad Nurul Huda: Limits were certainly crossed. The police's duty is basically to protect people's lives and property. But in the name of doing so, they push more people towards insecurity. This cannot be accepted. Action must be taken against the members of the police that committed such human rights violations. It also must be seen under what circumstance they opened fire. The member of the police who shot Abu Sayed in Rangpur, has been arrested. Action has been taken against the police who were responsible for burning a van loaded with bodies in Ashulia.
But the 13 members of the police force who were killed in Sirajganj hadn't fired at the students or the people. They had called for saving lives. Each incident must be seen separately. Everything cannot be measured on the same scale.
Prothom Alo :
How far are the senior authorities responsible for such human rights violations?
Mohammad Nurul Huda: According to the police rules and the code of criminal procedure, the IGP cannot order the OC of the police station or the concerned officers regarding the investigations. The investigating office will prepare the report according to his own judgement in keeping with the legal framework. If the senior official does not like that, he can carry out the investigation by someone else.
But he cannot tell anyone how to investigate or how not to investigate. The problem is we have many laws in the book, but not in practice. When applying the law, the field level officers have to take decisions based on reality. But in no way can public safety be ignored. It cannot be denied that there was use of excessive force in the student-people's uprising this time.
Prothom Alo :
Questions have arisen about equipping the police with advanced weapons. They are not supposed to be carrying these automatic weapons.
Mohammad Nurul Huda: A committee determines what sort of weapons the police are to carry. There are representatives of the army and of the home ministry on the committee. Police cannot be given these weapons randomly. I think the honourable advisor is aware of this too. And this is not the first time that the police have used such weapons. The thing is, no matter what weapons they are given, there are certain rules and restrictions about using these weapons.
Prothom Alo :
After the interim government took over, how far have they been able to keep the law and order situation under control?
Mohammad Nurul Huda: There are both positives and negatives about this. The police administration had almost broken down. The government is trying to rebuild that. Almost all of the police have returned to duty. The roadside hawkers are saying they don't have to bribe them with even a single paisa. The rickshaw-pullers, CNG-run auto-rickshaw drivers, car drivers, all say they are not having to pay bribes. All this is positive. But the outbursts and mob frenzy that is still taking place in many places, must be halted. Alongside applying the law, a culture or obeying the law must also be nurtured.
Prothom Alo :
Thank you.
Mohammad Nurul Huda: Thank you too.
* This interview appeared in the print and online edition of Prothom Alo and has been rewritten for the English edition by Ayesha Kabir