Interview: M Humayun Kabir
India must understand what the people of Bangladesh want
M Humayun Kabir, diplomat and former ambassador of Bangladesh, is now the president of Bangladesh Enterprise Institute (BEI). In an interview with Prothom Alo's Sohrab Hassan, he talks about the tensions prevailing in Bangladesh-India relations in the wake of the Awami League government's exit following the 5 August student-people's uprising.
It has been three and a half months since the interim government came to the helm. Where do relations between Bangladesh and India stand?
I feel the complications are growing. The relations between the two countries are multidimensional and diverse. The economic activities are more or less one-sided at the moment. We are importing power and diesel. Rice, onions and potatoes are coming in from India. But no commodities are being exported from Bangladesh.
As neighbouring countries, the relations between the two are political, diplomatic and commercial. We have long standing cultural ties too. Many Bangladeshi students and job aspirants go to Delhi to get their visas to travel to a third country. Over the past 15 years India issued visas easily. Since August this has become very restricted. Easing the visa process could be a first step for India to display its goodwill.
Why have the tensions between the two countries emerged?
The tensions between the two countries have emerged because India has not been able to accept the reality of Bangladesh's domestic political scenario after 5 August. I feel that both sides must come forward to resolve the problem. Bangladesh must be alert so that the situation does not get out of hand. The problems between the two countries have to be resolved diplomatically. Decisions must be taken on the basis of reality and need. Agitation must not be created in the public sphere.
Certain recent events have caused the situation to deteriorate. For example, during the demonstrations in front of Bangladesh's deputy high commission in Kolkata, BJP supporters set fire to Bangladesh's flag ...
This is an alarming incident. Firstly, the host country has the responsibility to protect the diplomat mission of any country as well as its staff. Bangladesh's foreign ministry has protested against the incident and demanded the safety of its diplomats be ensured. We hope India does what is needed in this regard. As neighbours, we cannot ignore each other. We need India and India needs Bangladesh.
The problem is that India's policymakers have not been able to accept the huge political change in Bangladesh. They had thought that keeping up relations with one party in Bangladesh would render bilateral relations sustainable
News of India's national flag being desecrated in Bangladesh has appeared on social media and in the Indian press. They have reason to be angered by this ...
This is totally unwarranted. All sides must behave sensitively. No one should do anything that can increase social unrest and mistrust.
Do you feel that there is any shortcoming on the part of Bangladesh in its efforts to increase understanding with India?
I won't say there is any shortcoming from our side. After the change in the political scenario, chief adviser Dr Muhammad Yunus delivered a clear message about taking bilateral relations ahead on the basis of equality and equal standing. He invited Indian journalists to come and see the situation in Bangladesh on ground. And many did come.
While speaking to correspondents of the Indian press, the chief adviser placed emphasis on improving bilateral ties. Bangladesh had made an effort for the chief adviser to meet Indian prime minister Narendra Modi in September during the UN General Assembly. That didn't happen. However, a meeting did take place between India's foreign minister Jaishankar and Bangladesh's foreign ministry adviser Md Touhid Hossain. We have not seen much headway in the diplomatic arena since then. That should have happened.
India has concerns about geopolitical matters too. They feel if Bangladesh's relations with Pakistan improve, their geopolitical interests will be affected ...
I see no reason for India to have any anxiety concerning Bangladesh's relations with Pakistan. It is not right of them to see Bangladesh's relations with Pakistan or any other country in a negative light.
Realistically speaking, Bangladesh will not have multidimensional relations with Pakistan as it has with India. Neither are competitors in the matter of economic relations. I would say this should not be a matter of any excess concern for India.
While FOC is a routine matter, the FOC with India this time holds different significance. This meeting is very important in bringing stability to relations between the two countries in the prevailing circumstances
There is anti-India talk in Bangladesh too...
The Bangladesh government does not spread any anti-Indian propaganda. Certain quarters may do so. I would say, the government and the mainstream political parties have displayed responsible behaviour. But it is different in India. They must stop the anti-Bangladesh campaign spearheaded there by the government, the media and on social media. That is the way to improve relations.
I feel that is the way to make things normal. Bangladesh will meet India half way if India makes a positive move. It has done so in the past. The non-government think-tanks can play a role in this regard too.
So where does the problem lie?
The problem is that India's policymakers have not been able to accept the huge political change in Bangladesh. They had thought that keeping up relations with one party in Bangladesh would render bilateral relations sustainable. The people here have not been too pleased with their interference in Bangladesh's domestic affairs. Everyone is well aware of how India's foreign secretary Sujata Singh influenced the elections in Bangladesh in 2014. We saw a repetition of this in the 2018 and 2024 elections too.
India must understand what the people of Bangladesh want. The people here were infuriated with the Bangladesh government as they had not been able to vote in three consecutive elections. Those in power did not tolerate any opposition whatsoever. It was not only political leaders and activists who were repressed, but the common people too. That was what led to the August student-people's uprising. In no way can this be linked to bilateral relations with India.
What is the way out of this stagnant state?
The solution to these bilateral relations must be approached in the light of reality. The people of both countries will benefit from this. Bangladesh's tourists cannot visit India as they have stopped issuing visas. Patients can't go there like before for medical treatment. The people of Bangladesh are being affected and India is being economically affected too, with no tourists or patients going there from Bangladesh.
Talks between the two countries are scheduled to be held on 10 December at a foreign secretary level. Bangladesh is hopeful about this meeting, as has been reflected in the statement of the foreign adviser. The Indian foreign ministry's spokesperson, in the meantime, has said the time and date has not been fixed yet. It will be announced once this is fixed.
A proposal has been sent to Delhi for the foreign secretary level meeting (Foreign Office Consultant - FOC) to be held on 10 December in Dhaka. Sources in Delhi say that they will respond once the day and the time is fixed. Keeping mutual respect intact, now a space for trust must be created. That is why I feel that it is important for this meeting to be held.
There is no alternative to talks to resolve any problems between the two countries. If there are any misunderstandings, those must be resolved through talks. If talks are held, then the matter of visas for Bangladeshis will be resolved too. If the communication between the people of the two countries increases, trade will increase too. While FOC is a routine matter, the FOC with India this time holds different significance. This meeting is very important in bringing stability to relations between the two countries in the prevailing circumstances.
India diplomats joined the recent Bay of Bengal Conversation too. Did you feel there was any sign of them accepting the new reality in Bangladesh?
Certain issues were raised, but not all. There should be more such discussions.
Will the Teesta water sharing issue, renewing the Gangers water sharing treaty, border killings and other pending issues between the two countries be put on the back burner?
These matters may be raised if bilateral talks are held. But at the moment it is important to iron out the tensions between the two countries, that is, to restore stability to bilateral ties.
India is expressing its concern, claiming that the minorities are being repressed in Bangladesh. India's foreign minister Jaishankar even made a statement in Lok Sabha to this end. How do you see this?
He may have made this statement to calm the unrest in India's domestic political arena. At the same time he also clarified their own stand. As for India monitoring the state of minorities in Bangladesh, everyone should take a look at themselves first. Here too we need to take necessary measures to ensure that the safety of the minorities is not disrupted. The problem is that the minority problem in Bangladesh is being over exaggerated by the India at an official and unofficial level.
But minorities did come under attack in Bangladesh after the 5 August changes came about.
I am not denying that certain incidents took place. But the response of the government and the people must be taken into account. I will mention three points here. There was no government for three days after 5 August. After the government took over on 8 August, the law and order situation improved rapidly. The political parties, student leadership and the public, alongside the government, came forward to protect the minorities.
Secondly, during the Durga Puja festivities, the government took up a stern stance to ensure peace. Political parties, student organisation and civil society kept vigil. And so there were no untoward incidents.
The third point is, when leader of the Sammilita Sanatani Jagoran Mancha, Chinmoy Krishna Das, was not granted bail, his followers created a chaotic situation. A lawyer was killed. The government took extreme cautionary measures and so the situation remained calm and is still so. It cannot be said that the government fell short in any way to ensure the safety of the minorities.
So what is the solution?
The solution is for India to take necessary measures in keeping with Bangladesh's political reality. The problem is they still cannot accept this reality. I have spoken to several Indian diplomats after 5 August. They expressed their surprise at what had happened in Bangladesh. Several newspapers and television channels also asked for my views. I told them, this was a spontaneous movement by the students, and people from all walks of life supported this. Their perception that Pakistan's ISI, China and the US were behind this, is baseless.
A telephone call from the chief adviser led to the return of over 50 Bangladeshi expatriates detained in UAE. Our labour market had been closed in Malaysia. At the behest of the chief adviser, that has reopened
What role can a third country play in keeping Bangladesh and India's relations normal? We saw when Awami League was in power, US played a role in this matter.
After the change in Bangladesh's political scenario, the US assistant secretary of state Donald Lu came to Bangladesh via Delhi. After leaving Dhaka, he went to Delhi again. While no side made any official statement in this regard, we feel that talks were held on matters of shared interest. The matter would become much easier if India accepted the reality in Bangladesh. India has some basis for its concern, but then again, some of its concerns are baseless. All this can be sorted out through dialogue. There is no alternative to dialogue to assuage our concerns and the concerns of India.
There was a historical response from the outside world to the change in Bangladesh's political scenario. Greetings poured in as the government led by Dr Muhammad Yunus was formed. But now three and a half months have passed and there have not been any significant developments in the area of foreign policy.
The European Union, United States, China, Japan and other big powers of the world displayed a positive response. In particular, the image generated by Dr Muhammad Yunus during the UN General Assembly, was extremely inspiring. We cannot say that we did not gain anything from this. A telephone call from the chief adviser led to the return of over 50 Bangladeshi expatriates detained in the United Arab Emirates. Our labour market had been closed in Malaysia. At the behest of the chief adviser, that has reopened.
But we see a negative situation in the area of investments. Foreign investment isn't coming in as expected.
Political stability is required in the country for investment. We have not been able to create that circumstance as yet. Everything is topsy-turvy. All countries want returns on their investment. Hopefully the political situation will become normal. The government has proposed many reforms. If these can be finalised and the country proceeds towards the election, we can hope for political stability.
Thank you.
Thank you too.
* This interview appeared in the print and online edition of Prothom Alo and has been rewritten for the English edition by Ayesha Kabir