Dr Mahbubullah is a former professor of Dhaka University, a political analyst and an economist. He was a leader of the 1969 mass uprising. In an interview with Prothom Alo’s Sohrab Hassan and Monzurul Islam he talks about the 2024 student-peoples uprising, constitutional reforms, the future of democracy in Bangladesh and other issues.
Sheikh Hasina's autocratic government was toppled in the 5 August student-peoples uprising. We have entered a new phase. The last 15 years was a horrifying chapter for democracy. Why do we repeatedly trip up on the path of democracy?
I see the matter a bit differently. The people of this region have been fighting for democracy not just from Pakistan times, but from British times. The demand for a constitution was an important part of that struggle. After the 1947 partition, the first election to the provincial assembly was held in 1954. Then in 1956 a constitution came into effect in Pakistan. It took nearly 9 years to draw up this constitution.
However that constitution was cancelled due to Ayub Khan's takeover of power and enforcing martial law. In 1962 he came up with a constitution of his own, the constitution of Basic Democracy. According to that constitution the people wouldn't be able to select their representatives through direct vote.
After the 1971 liberation war, independent Bangladesh’s constitution was drafted and enacted. Many people congratulated the drafters for coming up with such good constitution in such a short span of time. They thought that this would bode well for them in the future. But there were flaws from the very outset in the drafting of that constitution. The question arose as to whether those who drafted the constitution at the time, had the mandate to do so.
The 1972 constitution did not, however, remain unchanged for long. Very soon after the constitution was put into effect, amendments began. By means of the fourth amendment, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman ushered in a one-party rule to ensure they would remain in power permanently.
Sheikh Hasina had the same objectives. The fall of democracy and rise of fascism stems from politics to retain state power without elections or the consent of the people.
A debate prevails over whether to amend the constitution, rewrite it or draft it anew. What is your view on the matter?
No one has made any announcement that the present constitution of Bangladesh is going to be cancelled nor has it been rendered void. The constitution has been burdened by many undemocratic amendments. As the caretaker government system has been abolished, it is not possible to hold free and fair elections under this constitution.
I personally feel that it is not possible to make adjustments in this constitution to render it people-oriented. In the prevailing debate over amending or rewriting the constitution, I am in favour of rewriting it. I feel that recommendations should be taken from the political parties and the constitution rewritten on the basis of a consensus. But there should be no delays in the task.
Given the present circumstances, questions have arisen as to whether Awami League can carry out political activities and take part in the election or not. What do you think?
The time has not arrived yet as to whether Awami League can participate in the election or not. Politics is changing in the country. Many new questions are coming to the fore.
There are two opinions over whether Awami League will join the election or not. There are those in favour of allowing Awami League to practice politics, while many are in favour of banning the party or keeping it away from politics. However, if a party or a mindset exists in the society or the state, I do not think it can be kept away from politics or the election by force or by means of the law.
So what then?
The allegations against the Awami League government are extremely grave. They have been accused of repressing and suppressing the opposition, enforced disappearance, killing, mass murder and a fascist rule. They must be brought to trial. But then again, questions will arise if the leaders and activists of the party who do not face such allegations are prevented from practicing politics. They perhaps will be able to practice politics, after the trials are over.
The problem is that the judicial process in our country is extremely slow. So the process may not be complete before the election. The government should take measures to ensure this judicial process is carried out as speedily a possible. Actually the question of Awami League doing politics or not has created such circumstances where there is no best solution.
Over the past 15 years Awami League carried out all sorts of misdeeds and repression. During this mass uprising many protestors were killed. This has created extreme hatred and anger among the people and so anything related to Awami League is a symbol of wrongdoing and repression. That is why Awami League is being opposed at every step. That is only natural. Once people’s anger subsides, the situation may change in future. Then maybe they (Awami League) too will be able to practice politics.
A political party can be known by its activities when in power. The Awami League of 1971 and the post-1971 Awami League are not one and the same. During the Awami League government from 1972 to 1975, an autocratic rule had prevailed too. And through the misrule or fascist rule over the past 15 years, the party had gradually been heading down a suicidal path. That culminated in the fall of the government on 5 August this year.
The student organisations associated with the political parties had been at the leadership of the 1969 and 1990 mass uprisings. But it was the common students that lent leadership to the student-people’s uprising of 2024. Does this signify any change in politics?
Those who led the mass movement this time are known as the coordinators. Some of them were associated with the organisation Gonotrantrik Chhatra Shakti, though they do not mention that organisation much now. The effort for the students to organise under some name or the other indicates the need for an organisation. In countries like Bangladesh where the seeds of democracy have not sprouted, there is ample scope for student organisations to play a significant role.
The movement of the students this time was not just a students’ movement, but a movement in which people from all walks of life took part. The people were already prepared to oust Sheikh Hasina and that is why they rapidly joined hands with the students’ movement.
While the conventional student organisations were not at the leadership of the movement this time, large numbers of their leaders and activists played an active role in the movement. The issues of the movement were also the issues of the opposition political parties. So it really can’t be said that there has been any significant change in politics.
From past experience, would you say people have lost confidence in the regular political parties of Bangladesh?
That is what many people are saying, but I think this is baseless. It will be understood during the election whether people have lost confidence in the conventional political parties. Awami League destroyed the country’s electoral system. That electoral system must be fixed. After that when a fair election is held, the people’s confidence or lack of confidence will be clear.
Three months of the interim government have passed. How will you evaluate the activities of the government? There is noticeable dissatisfaction among the people concerning the law and order situation and the spiraling prices.
This government has taken up several good initiatives. Several commissions have been formed as part of the reform plans. We look forward to them coming up with the reforms needed for a fair and credible election.
But there are apprehensions regarding law and order as well as security. The people are anxious about the increase in robbery, theft and mugging. The reason behind this is that basically it is the police that are in charge of law and order in our country. The police are not being able to function effectively since 5 August. We hear that many members of the force have not returned to duty. Until the police force is fully effective, law and order will not improve.
Then there is the matter of increased prices. The price of essentials had been spiralling from when the past government was in power, not just over these last three months. This trend has been continuing for the last four or five years.
A large number of exorbitant mega projects had been taken up during the last government. The expenditure on the mega projects had been three to four times higher than that of other countries. Funds had been wasted in many other ways too. At various times extra currency was printed to keep the situation in check. This increased the circulation of money in the market, pushing up prices. It will take time to rectify this situation.
If people can speak out, then I will feel that we are moving towards democracy. If people cannot open up and speak their minds, that fascism may just return in a different name and a different form
BNP has asked the interim government to present a roadmap and hold the elections soon. What is you view on the matter?
The basic premise of the interim government is to create an environment conducive to free and fair elections. It is only natural for an election-oriented party like BNP to want a possible date or roadmap regarding the election. There is nothing wrong with BNP’s ask.
From the outward appearance of the government, it does not seem that they will remain in power for long. Dr Yunus himself said that the he will not remain in power if the people do not want it. I do not want to comment right now on whether anything else will occur in the future.
BNP and Jamaat at times launched a movement against the last government as an alliance and at times they held simultaneous movements. But in the changed circumstances after the fall of Sheikh Hasina’s government, visible differences have emerged between BNP and Jamaat over various issues such as the election and reforms. How do you view this?
I feel Jamaat has received a huge boost to its confidence. They have an organised force and a huge cadre force, they managed to play a militant role in this movement. This led to an increase in their confidence. As a result, they imagine that they do not need anyone else’s support or help.
It is unfortunate if disunity emerges among the stakeholders before the country’s crisis has been properly resolved. It is unfortunate because Sheikh Hasina is sitting in India pulling strings to create unrest in the country here. That is why those who want democracy in the country should maintain unity, or at least a working relationship.
Is there a possibility of extremist right-wing forces arising in this juncture of power changing hands?
As far as I understand the character or nature of the people of this country, I do not foresee any such forces coming to power through the election or any other means in Bangladesh. Various groups and organisations took part in the movement this time and so certain religious icons caught the eye. Sheikh Hasina had unleashed a rule of repression and suppression over the past 15 years. The recent activities can be seen as a fallout of that.
I had mentioned in one of my writings that the psyche of Bangladesh’s people is somewhat like a pendulum, swinging at one time to the left and then to the right. At times we lean towards secular festivity and then again at time we see a rise in religious rituals. This indicates that the belief or world of consciousness of the people in this country is still in a state of flux. That is because our nation building problems have not been resolved. As a result, we fail to reach a consensus on broad issues as a nation.
The task of nation building is not easy and cannot be done speedily. This requires strong leadership. Politics must go deeper. Politics based on mere slogans won’t do.
Are you hopeful about the future of Bangladesh’s democracy?
It is not enough simply to topple an undemocratic or fascist government. It is vital to ensure that fascism does not arise all over again. The rise of fascism is strongly linked to the economy. When lumpen bourgeoisie take control of the economy in a country instead of patriotic bourgeoisie, then democracy diminishes.
While all sorts of changes and reforms are being declared by various quarters, no one is talking about fundamental changes in the economy and politics. And that is why I am not too hopeful about the future of democracy. Even in such a situation I feel that people must be allowed to speak out. If people can speak out, then I will feel that we are moving towards democracy. If people cannot open up and speak their minds, that fascism may just return in a different name and a different form.
Thank you.
Thank you too
* This interview appeared in the print and online edition of Prothom Alo and has been rewritten for the English edition by Ayesha Kabir