Human rights and freedom of expression are not fixed concepts

There have been criticism and questions at home and abroad over the past 15 years of the Awami League rule concerning human rights. Do you see the human rights issue as a major challenge before the new government too?

Anisul Huq: Since you raised this question, I would like to point out that in 2002 (during the BNP rule) when Operation Clean Heart was launched, no one raised any questions pertaining to human rights. Yet there was nothing like that in 2009 to 2023 (15 years of the Awami League government), compared to the extrajudicial killings, the culture of enforced disappearances and the alarm in people's minds during that time. When the honourable prime minister Sheikh Hasina took over power in 2009, there were many challenges in front of us.

There was a compelling need at the time to enforce the law sternly in order to face these challenges and establish the rule of law. Now if the laws are applied and anyone has to face the law as a criminal, we cannot be accused of violating human rights. Also, elements of the 2002 culture had seeped into the law enforcement agencies. They felt that even if they resorted to excesses, they wouldn't be brought under the law. That would be wrong to equate with the government. Take the seven murders in Narayanganj, for example. The government immediately brought them under the law, sent them to jail and placed them on trial.

The seven murder case hit the headlines and the government took action. But some incidents do not come to the limelight, and then no action is taken.

Anisul Huq: There haven't been that many incidents that have merited such attention and so these haven't come to the limelight. And when we started paying more attention to such matters, the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights gave us a list of 76 missing persons. We investigated the names on the list, but said that the police would go to the families who had lodged the complaints and listen to their allegations.

After we said that, Prothom Alo, The Daily Star and a few other newspapers started publishing news that these families were being threatened. We even took that into consideration. Later we decided that a letter would be sent from the police stations asking them to provide the information and evidence, and we would search for them. The process is still on. We conducted investigations differently too and found many of them had returned. Then again, many were fugitive convicts sentenced to death. Investigations showed a wide gap between the information given and the facts.

International human rights organisations and even the UN and the US at various times had issued statement about enforced disappearances. You even had to answer to these issues at an international level, including the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights. You all said investigations were being conducted, but you all never released the findings of those investigations.

Anisul Huq: Why will we release the findings when the investigations aren't over? There are still many families who haven't submitted the information properly. The results we have received so far regarding investigations into the list of 76 names that we received, have been sent on to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights. Then they gave another list of 21 names. We are investigating each allegation and sending them the results because this government has no involvement in extrajudicial killing.

The allegations are against the law enforcement. The US has placed sanctions on the elite force RAB. The victim families claim that their relations were picked up because they were involved in the politics of the opposition party.

Anisul Huq: When I first became the law minister after the 2014 election, I was given a list of 214 names. We found that the list was not correct. We replied to the allegations regarding each and every one, other than two or three. Then came along the 76 names and we replied to that too. Next came a list of 21. We investigate every case and send them the facts. You mention the sanction on RAB. They can impose sanctions, but we do not feel this has been judicious. That is why we are contesting it.

Do you think that the international quarters including the UN, find the arguments or facts that you are putting forward, acceptable?

Anisul Huq: What is the yardstick of acceptability? The yardstick is whether those in the Comity of Nations are accepting my arguments or accountability or not. In November last year, 111 countries took part in the discussions on human rights. I was there. The representatives of all the countries spoke. And 100 countries praised our human rights. They said in a very conducive manner that we accept that good work is being done to ensure human rights. Even so, they made some recommendations. And 9 countries praised us but also gave us some suggestions. For example, the US and the UK said that they wanted free and fair elections. They raised these political issues too.

But the countries where the state of human rights is good, such as the US and other countries of the West, are not lending their approval.

Anisul Huq: Look, the man George Floyd was crying out, "I can't breathe", but he was still killed. Even after seeing such incidents, you say they are high above us where human rights are concerned. So I guess there needs to be a new definition of human rights. Over here some of the officers who were given responsibility, committed excesses. If we didn't take action, you could call this state-sponsored. We are not doing that.

Coming to the 7 January election, prior to the election, on 28 October last year the BNP rally in Dhaka was disrupted and then began the drive to arrests the BNP leaders and activists. BNP says over 23,000 of its party leaders and activists, starting with the party secretary general, are still in jail.

Anisul Huq: This figure is not correct. There is another thing that needs to be mentioned here. It was only Awami League that handed over power without any disturbance in 2001. But after coming to power in the 'controversial' 2001 election, BNP unleashed terror on Awami League's leaders and workers. No investigations were carried out into the cases regarding incidents of torture. The cases were only investigated when Awami League came to power in 2009. Then people were killed in 2013 and 2014 when buses were set on fire. The trials of these cases are drawing to a close. When the investigations were underway, no one was arrested.

But the cases were accelerated just before the election. The police were the complainants, the police were the witnesses. That has been alleged too.

Anisul Huq: The convictions were not given on the basis of the police's depositions. It was simply a coincidence that the election came up at the same time that it took for the police to submit their chargesheets and bring the case to court.

That is exactly where questions are being raised. With the 7 January election ahead, BNP leaders were arrested and the trials of old cases were speedily completed.

Anisul Huq: They were given permission to hold the rally on 28 October. Earlier on 10 December 2022 they were given permission for their rally too. But on 28 October they unleashed violence and terror from their rally. That means BNP-Jamaat do not believe in the rule of law. If the old cases had been settled earlier, they would say this was to suppress the movement. The cases took place in course of the law. It is because of the law that the trials were held. How is that wrong?

But the trial of the BNP leaders were so speedily carried out that the court even conducted the cases at night.

Anisul Huq: Such allegations are incorrect. Take for example, a witness is giving his deposition and the clock strikes six. He needs five more minutes to end his statement. The court then consults with the lawyers of both sides and perhaps carries on the proceedings for half an hour or one hour more. If the court extends its proceedings for 15 minutes to an hour, that is not violating the law. Many courts held proceedings at night in the past. During the military rule of Ziaur Rahman, the martial law court went on up till midnight. Hangings took place as late at 1:00 in the night.

BNP says over 23,000 of their people are in prison.

Anisul Huq: You raised this question another day, but then you had said 20,000. I inquired and said it would be around 10,000. I still say, the figure is nowhere near 23,000. It is much, much lower.

You say the law is running its own course. But BNP says 90 per cent of their accused leaders and activists have been convicted in the cases against them. Each of them faces multiple cases. Even the top leaders are not being granted bail, their lawyers say.

Anisul Huq: The court functions entirely independently. We have nothing to do. Look, a BNP leader accused of kicking the gate of the chief justice's residence was not granted bail. But the fact remains that if you attack the chief justice's house and insult the judges, or drag them into confrontation, they are human too. So if they take a stand, we have nothing to do.

BNP leader Shahjahan Omar was accused in a case at New Market police station, but then was granted bail immediately when he said he would take part in the election. He was released at night and the very next day he joined Awami League and contested in the election under the 'boat' symbol. Was he given any special concession?

Anisul Huq: He was not given any special privilege. What decision he took upon release from jail was completely his business. After he took his decision, the honourable prime minister nominated him and he won. It would be wrong to misinterpret this.

But other leaders in the same case of sabotage are still behind bars.

Anisul Huq: There are various allegations against each of them. Some are accused of instigation, while some are actually committing the offences on ground. The merit of the cases depends on this.

Freedom of expression is a big issue. If anyone expresses dissension, the government clamps down hard. A reign of fear has been created in the country where freedom of expression is concerned. We journalists too are apprehensive about publish news of various issues. A sort of self-censorship is at work.

Anisul Huq: You journalists said that the Digital Security Act created a psychological fear. The government didn't file many cases under that law, individuals did. Even so, since the matter of psychological fear was brought up, we discussed this and changed those areas of fear. We have made cases bailable. The defamation cases have been relaxed too. But it must also be acknowledged that social media is misused. Everyone needs protection from this.

Do you all perceive the fear among the people to speak out? Do you ever feel that?

Anisul Huq: I feel a numbers of newspapers, some individuals, try to spread this fear. But if you go to the villages, you will see there is no political fear there. There is no fear about speaking against the Awami League government.

What are your plans now to shrug off this criticism regarding human rights and freedom of expression?

Anisul Huq: Human rights and freedom of expression are not fixed concepts. These are in a constant state of flux. We will keep up with the changes and do whatever is needed to improve and do well.

As law minister for the third consecutive time, what are your priorities?

Anisul Huq: Firstly, to address the case jam. People suffer due to long-winded case procedures. It is my responsibility to address this. As law minister, I have created a sort of infrastructure so that the case jam is addressed and people will receive speedy justice. The e-judiciary project will be implemented. The number of positions for judges will be increased. Also, there are plans to accelerate the investigations and other pre-trial procedures. Now around 3.8 million cases are pending trial. I hope this will decrease.

Thank you for your time.

Anisul Huq: Thank you too.